I think there's some misunderstanding of my position here which is probably worth clarifying. There seems to be an implication here that you believe I want people to support the incel movement (such as it is) or that I don't think a lot of what they say/do isn't bad gross. I don't want them supported in terms of their goals (to the exten…
I think there's some misunderstanding of my position here which is probably worth clarifying. There seems to be an implication here that you believe I want people to support the incel movement (such as it is) or that I don't think a lot of what they say/do isn't bad gross. I don't want them supported in terms of their goals (to the extent the internet stereotype is accurate and it's basically legalized rape) or think that calling all women sluts or whatever is good.
What I'm saying (or trying to say) is that you can, while still thinking they suck/are dangerous/have behavior that should be discouraged, acknowledge that there's an actual problem here; something that doesn't justify being an asshole or misogynism but that exists. That's why I brought up my Grandpa - he didn't have to let a lifetime of pain and abuse based on his disability turn him into an asshole. It did turn him into an asshole; that was wrong. But it doesn't erase the pain.
This isn't about rationalsphere, as much as I keep getting dismissed that way. I'm not saying you should feel happy about this or think it's less of a threat - I'm saying you should be able to separate out bad behavior and bad things that happened to people who behave badly and at least acknowledge the bad things that happened to them were bad.
What I worry about here is that if the pattern we are seeing holds and we eventually have, say, 40-60% of young men as perpetually and sorrowfully single, that leaves a lot of really unhappy kids running around. And I think it's pretty likely that if they find out that the average person won't acknowledge anything happened to them and gets mad at them for even bringing it up, they are going to go "Well, fuck those people" and find somebody that does.
The super-short summary of all this is I'm not and haven't discounted that these guys behave badly, or even that they might be a threat to you. I'm not saying that there isn't a group who wouldn't have you in chains. I'm saying that by ignoring the effect they are (some in the worst possible way) complaining about refusing to sympathize with anybody that has it, you are optimizing for them finding sympathy in the first group that seems to give it and giving them over to that group for indoctrination. Right now, that's the incels.
I wanted to throw something else out there: you seem to think there's some vile stuff in the comments here. If you want, email me at residentcontrarian@substack.com; I'd be glad to take a look at it. Some stuff I haven't commented on because it was already opposed, and some stuff I haven't seen, but the comments are pretty substantially deep now and I've probably missed some stuff I should have replied to.
I think there's some misunderstanding of my position here which is probably worth clarifying. There seems to be an implication here that you believe I want people to support the incel movement (such as it is) or that I don't think a lot of what they say/do isn't bad gross. I don't want them supported in terms of their goals (to the extent the internet stereotype is accurate and it's basically legalized rape) or think that calling all women sluts or whatever is good.
What I'm saying (or trying to say) is that you can, while still thinking they suck/are dangerous/have behavior that should be discouraged, acknowledge that there's an actual problem here; something that doesn't justify being an asshole or misogynism but that exists. That's why I brought up my Grandpa - he didn't have to let a lifetime of pain and abuse based on his disability turn him into an asshole. It did turn him into an asshole; that was wrong. But it doesn't erase the pain.
This isn't about rationalsphere, as much as I keep getting dismissed that way. I'm not saying you should feel happy about this or think it's less of a threat - I'm saying you should be able to separate out bad behavior and bad things that happened to people who behave badly and at least acknowledge the bad things that happened to them were bad.
What I worry about here is that if the pattern we are seeing holds and we eventually have, say, 40-60% of young men as perpetually and sorrowfully single, that leaves a lot of really unhappy kids running around. And I think it's pretty likely that if they find out that the average person won't acknowledge anything happened to them and gets mad at them for even bringing it up, they are going to go "Well, fuck those people" and find somebody that does.
The super-short summary of all this is I'm not and haven't discounted that these guys behave badly, or even that they might be a threat to you. I'm not saying that there isn't a group who wouldn't have you in chains. I'm saying that by ignoring the effect they are (some in the worst possible way) complaining about refusing to sympathize with anybody that has it, you are optimizing for them finding sympathy in the first group that seems to give it and giving them over to that group for indoctrination. Right now, that's the incels.
I wanted to throw something else out there: you seem to think there's some vile stuff in the comments here. If you want, email me at residentcontrarian@substack.com; I'd be glad to take a look at it. Some stuff I haven't commented on because it was already opposed, and some stuff I haven't seen, but the comments are pretty substantially deep now and I've probably missed some stuff I should have replied to.